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Signs for Hatfield House Lawn Area
I have been asked to advise residents here that there has finally been an agreement to put up signs at the above area, making it clear that it is for the use of residents, and not the general public.
Suggestions will be put to the Committee for any appropriate wording. Also, if anyone has any ideas as to what would be suitable, I would like to hear them.
Mr Jacks has advised that the wording needs to be kept as short as possible. The original suggestion from the Office was to say, "Private Property. Keep of the Grass". However, I felt this would not cover the adjoining concrete area, which the public also use excessively.
Many thanks!
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Maria Elizabeth Prior on
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Hello 15 storeys high.
I'm not precisely sure what you mean. This Estate is clearly marked as a 'Private Estate'! The signs say so. Do you mean the 'rules' about the public using the grass areas? Obviously, because it is a private estate, such areas are for the use of residents only. Take Basterfield House lawn, for example. This area is locked, and only residents of the Estate can use this. This is only fair, because it is the residents who pay for the upkeep, not the general public. I suggest that you contact the City's Legal Department for further clarification. I have spoken to them, and they have made it very clear that, as they own the property, they can put up any appropriate signs. It is sad that signs have to be put up, but because the public have 'abused' this area for so long, and not respected this as a Private Estate, there is little other option.
15 storeys high said:the question about the rules of this being a private estate remain unanswered what are they ?
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:Hi 15 storeys high.
In answer to your questions, firstly, providing the signs are of a certain size, LBC will not be required. If people who are not residents use the area, the Police will have the power to ask them to move, as will Estate staff. The reason why, is as stated above, in that this is a private Estate, and such areas are meant for the sole use of residents. There are several notices around the estate that clearly cite it as a 'Private Estate'.
On other areas, for example, Basterfield House lawn, this area is locked, and only Estate residents can use it. Other lawn areas around the Estate are also for the use of residents.
Many people, especially those who reside by the Hatfield House lawn, are very unhappy over the fact that for so long non residents have used the area as a 'park'! I can only say that it is great news that, at last, we will be able to 'reclaim' the area, that we, as residents pay for the upkeep of.
I hope that answers your questions.
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Michael, if you check out the latest results of the 'open space' survey you will see that residents are unhappy about how the public have used this area. All the residents of Hatfield House I have spoken to totally oppose the lawn being used as a 'public park'. Do you live in this area? Even if not many residents of Basterfield House lawn use it all the time, so what? They pay for the upkeep, so it is their choice! These non residents do not!
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:
Have been informed today by Bob Jacks, that the order for the Hatfield House signs has now gone ahead. I understand that they will read something like, ' Private Property. For Residents' Use Only'.
Most people want this area, and all grass areas on Golden Lane Estate, to be for the sole use of residents only, particularly as we pay for the upkeep in our service charges. Unlike Basterfield House lawn, for example, Hatfield House lawn cannot be locked up. Nobody wants more signs on the Estate. However, there appears no other alternative. It is very frustrating that non residents have 'abused' this area in the first place. I would have thought that the notices saying, 'This is a Private Estate', would have been enough of a hint! Not so! Please check out the Comments Book in the Estate Office, where it is clearly shown how much of a problem this issue has been.
Of course, some will ignore the signs, as we realise. However, our City of London Police will have the power to enforce it. Hopefully, most will get the message!
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Michael, I can hardly see that having signs up, pointing out that certain areas are for residents only, can look like we have 'serious crime problems'! No one is saying 'crimes' have been committed! Residents are only, rightly, claiming the use of the area they pay for!
Michael Bojkowski said:Not more ugly signs that no-one takes any notice of and make the place look like we've got serious crime problems. Making sure people clean up after themselves is the answer not blocking them out completely. It is a right of way.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Bojkowski on
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Hi Maria
Of course I live in this area, how else would I know about all the local goings on. :) My flat faces both in and out of the Estate and overlooks Basterfield Lawn, and to tell you the truth, lately, I've had more disruptions from kids from outside the Estate gaining access to the buildings though stealth and certain residents airing their domestic problems in a rather loud fashion (who I think are leaving the doors opens for said kids) than from people passing through the Estate.
In fact I would go as far to say that it is because this corner is fairly quiet that these disturbances have occurred. The truth is a busy Estate is a safe and active one. No one really wants to live in an enclave shut away from the outside world do they. I mean, why else live in London?
I agree the rubbish is a problem but I would much rather have to deal with the occasional lunch time litter than have to shoo kids off my roof at 2am in the morning or listen to a neighbours abusing each other again. The more people around the less this sort of thing should happen.
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:
Hi Michael. Yes, the Estate is a right of way, but that exactly means that! A right to pass through, and keep going! Also, even if all these non residents put their litter in the bins, because so many people who don't live here use this lawn, there is still the problem of too much litter in the bins! And, who is going to make sure they 'clean up after themselves'? Do you live in this area? perhaps you are not aware just how serious the problem has become.
Michael Bojkowski said:Not more ugly signs that no-one takes any notice of and make the place look like we've got serious crime problems. Making sure people clean up after themselves is the answer not blocking them out completely. It is a right of way.
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Hi Michael
When I asked if you live in the area, I meant the blocks surrounding Hatfield House lawn. I think, perhaps, you may be experiencing different problems than where we are. I totally sympathise with you over any disturbances you have experienced, by, both kids from outside, and resident 'disputes'! We all suffer that, at times. We mainly get these sort of problems later in the evening! Do you?
The problem I have raised is that non residents are 'taking over' the Hatfield House lawn area during the day, particularly during the lunch hours. No one really wants to use this area after dark, apart from those kids you have told me about, so this is a different matter entirely. The fact is that this is a private estate, and we, not the public, pay for the upkeep of it. As you don't live
in this area, it does not affect you in the same way it does us. It is definately not occasional litter as you say, but during the working week, the bins are over filled with litter, which means the Estate staff have to empty them more often, and clear rubbish from the lawn.Us residents obviously do not want to live cut off from the outside world, as you put it. After all, there is 'right of way', so we see people passing through all the time. That is the point. They have the right to do that. Residents have the right to use our communal areas when we want to, and not when the public decide we can, when they don't use it! Non residents have misused this area for too long now, and I look forward to when us residents can use our areas, that we pay for, freely!
Michael Bojkowski said:Hi Maria
Of course I live in this area, how else would I know about all the local goings on. :) My flat faces both in and out of the Estate and overlooks Basterfield Lawn, and to tell you the truth, lately, I've had more disruptions from kids from outside the Estate gaining access to the buildings though stealth and certain residents airing their domestic problems in a rather loud fashion (who I think are leaving the doors opens for said kids) than from people passing through the Estate.
In fact I would go as far to say that it is because this corner is fairly quiet that these disturbances have occurred. The truth is a busy Estate is a safe and active one. No one really wants to live in an enclave shut away from the outside world do they. I mean, why else live in London?
I agree the rubbish is a problem but I would much rather have to deal with the occasional lunch time litter than have to shoo kids off my roof at 2am in the morning or listen to a neighbours abusing each other again. The more people around the less this sort of thing should happen.
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:
Hi Michael. Yes, the Estate is a right of way, but that exactly means that! A right to pass through, and keep going! Also, even if all these non residents put their litter in the bins, because so many people who don't live here use this lawn, there is still the problem of too much litter in the bins! And, who is going to make sure they 'clean up after themselves'? Do you live in this area? perhaps you are not aware just how serious the problem has become.
Michael Bojkowski said:Not more ugly signs that no-one takes any notice of and make the place look like we've got serious crime problems. Making sure people clean up after themselves is the answer not blocking them out completely. It is a right of way.
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Permalink Reply by 1e1v9xeys920g on
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It's a shame to begrudge hard working City workers who keep some in sickness and income support the pleasure of sitting on the grass during their measley lunch break. How spiteful. Typical of some Golden Lane residents. Maybe you should sit on the grass, enjoy it and smoke some. You'd be less uptight.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Daszko on
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More "Private Estate" signs and all grassed areas for residents use only! This should be implimented and enforced. I also think a seperate entrance should be used/constructed for getting into the leisure centre.
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:Michael, if you check out the latest results of the 'open space' survey you will see that residents are unhappy about how the public have used this area. All the residents of Hatfield House I have spoken to totally oppose the lawn being used as a 'public park'. Do you live in this area? Even if not many residents of Basterfield House lawn use it all the time, so what? They pay for the upkeep, so it is their choice! These non residents do not!
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:Have been informed today by Bob Jacks, that the order for the Hatfield House signs has now gone ahead. I understand that they will read something like, ' Private Property. For Residents' Use Only'.
Most people want this area, and all grass areas on Golden Lane Estate, to be for the sole use of residents only, particularly as we pay for the upkeep in our service charges. Unlike Basterfield House lawn, for example, Hatfield House lawn cannot be locked up. Nobody wants more signs on the Estate. However, there appears no other alternative. It is very frustrating that non residents have 'abused' this area in the first place. I would have thought that the notices saying, 'This is a Private Estate', would have been enough of a hint! Not so! Please check out the Comments Book in the Estate Office, where it is clearly shown how much of a problem this issue has been.
Of course, some will ignore the signs, as we realise. However, our City of London Police will have the power to enforce it. Hopefully, most will get the message!
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I totally agree Steve. It's a shame we have to have signs, but they are so necessary, particularly during warm weather periods!
Steve Daszko said:More "Private Estate" signs and all grassed areas for residents use only! This should be implimented and enforced. I also think a seperate entrance should be used/constructed for getting into the leisure centre.
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:Michael, if you check out the latest results of the 'open space' survey you will see that residents are unhappy about how the public have used this area. All the residents of Hatfield House I have spoken to totally oppose the lawn being used as a 'public park'. Do you live in this area? Even if not many residents of Basterfield House lawn use it all the time, so what? They pay for the upkeep, so it is their choice! These non residents do not!
Maria Elizabeth Prior said:Have been informed today by Bob Jacks, that the order for the Hatfield House signs has now gone ahead. I understand that they will read something like, ' Private Property. For Residents' Use Only'.
Most people want this area, and all grass areas on Golden Lane Estate, to be for the sole use of residents only, particularly as we pay for the upkeep in our service charges. Unlike Basterfield House lawn, for example, Hatfield House lawn cannot be locked up. Nobody wants more signs on the Estate. However, there appears no other alternative. It is very frustrating that non residents have 'abused' this area in the first place. I would have thought that the notices saying, 'This is a Private Estate', would have been enough of a hint! Not so! Please check out the Comments Book in the Estate Office, where it is clearly shown how much of a problem this issue has been.
Of course, some will ignore the signs, as we realise. However, our City of London Police will have the power to enforce it. Hopefully, most will get the message!
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About b----y time. This is a PRIVATE estate after all!!!
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Permalink Reply by Misty Hay on
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I 100% agree with Paul. It seems to me that the outside space on the estate is under used. As a resident I don't spend time in the estates gardens because there is never anyone around which makes me feel uncomfortable and like I'm not welcome. I live in Great Arthur House and always got the impression that I'm not allowed to use the lawn areas. Perhaps we need to make more of an effort to use these spaces ourselves. Whats the point of communal space if nobody uses it?
Paul Lincoln said:I agree with this. There are far too many signs on the estate already - and I doubt if anyone reads them. And what's wrong with people sitting on the grass. Sitting on the grass is a good thing to encourage. Green spaces are for people to sit and chat, to eat their lunch. I sit on the grass near where I work, why shouldn't people sit on the grass when they work near Golden Lane.
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Hi Misty Hay
As you live in Great Arthur House, of course you are fully entitled to use the communal outside grass areas on the Estate. That is what it's there for. I live over the Hatfield House lawn, and during the warm months, at lunch times, we have had the problem of many non residents using the lawn area, so much so, that us residents have not been able to use it, due to overcrowding by non residents. These people often leave rubbish behind, and this has caused problems for Estate staff, who have to clear up after them. The thing to remember is that we pay Service Charges for the upkeep of the lawn areas, and non residents do not!!! You did hit a 'note' by saying you felt unwelcome to use some grass areas! This is because many of us residents at Hatfield House lawn have certainly been made to feel unwelcome by some of these non residents who use the area! This is not right! You are a resident, and I hope you will often visit the Hatfield House lawn. Signs are shortly on their way, clearly stating that this area is for residents' use only!
Misty Hay said:I 100% agree with Paul. It seems to me that the outside space on the estate is under used. As a resident I don't spend time in the estates gardens because there is never anyone around which makes me feel uncomfortable and like I'm not welcome. I live in Great Arthur House and always got the impression that I'm not allowed to use the lawn areas. Perhaps we need to make more of an effort to use these spaces ourselves. Whats the point of communal space if nobody uses it?
Paul Lincoln said:I agree with this. There are far too many signs on the estate already - and I doubt if anyone reads them. And what's wrong with people sitting on the grass. Sitting on the grass is a good thing to encourage. Green spaces are for people to sit and chat, to eat their lunch. I sit on the grass near where I work, why shouldn't people sit on the grass when they work near Golden Lane.
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Permalink Reply by Miss Julie on
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I hope that this strategy addresses your concerns, Maria. I think it would be nice for residents to make better use of our public spaces and perhaps we should all be less inhibited about doing so, although maybe now isn't quite the right time of year. I'm very happy to contribute to service charges to make a clean and pleasant environment for those who live in Golden Lane and for those passing through as well as to support those who service and look after our homes and community.
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